aisa0: aligning my thinking with our skillsets. a conversation with 100,000 people?

none of the above (

aisa0) wrote,
@ 2005-12-08 07:29:00

aligning my thinking with our skillsets. a conversation with 100,000 people?
since

ravendisplayed posted a comment about the world of warcraft user interface, i've been thinking about goal setting, communication, having fun, and getting things done. i think game interfaces do a good job of meeting maslow's hierarchy of needs, interestingly by presenting a format that is really similiar to the strategy for getting things done.

basically, answering the question of "what do i do now?" is provided for in the interface, as well as positive feedback for accomplishing tasks along several goal horizons. looking at our skills sets, customer service comes up a lot, and similar systems must exist in call centers, at least the "what do i do now?" part of it.

so is there an interface, product, or tool we could develop that would answer the "what do i do now?" in a creative context? that seems perhaps the hardest place to apply such an interface, since so much about the problem is basically not known. but:

i recently ran across in incredibly intriguing article, asking the question: how would you have a conversation with 100,000 people? i think one answer to this question may be a maslow-style interface:

you can't actually sit and talk to that many people, it seems the first thing you'd want to accomplish is figuring out what you *don't have to talk about.* imagine a complex problem, like "how do we improve the health care system in the US?"

with a group that large, you're quickly going to want to establish your own identity. you'll want to align yourself with other people who have similiar opinions, find out where the "hot" conversation topics are, read summaries and briefs from those things you missed, engage others who have identical goals but different solutions.

in short, i think you'd want to represent the conversation with things like goals, solutions, tasks, beliefs, etc, and be able to associate and identify these things as virtual objects. can structure conversation both scale and be entertaining/engaging for the participants?

(Post a new comment)

Idea for a product?

kbyrd
2005-12-08 05:12 pm UTC (link)

You post got me thinking. I have often run up against the same problem. How can a geographically diverse group colloborate? I've looked at some collaboration software and it never quite works. I wonder if this group is well suited to creating collaboration software that works well? Maybe if we let the less "programmer" among us tell us how it should work we would be on to something.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Idea for a product?

aisa0
2005-12-08 05:36 pm UTC (link)

reading over our skillset, collaboration issues seems a great fit. we have enough gamers to let us know whether something is "fun," a huge interest in conversation, talking, keeping in touch. in many cases, professionally.

i've not been happy with collaboration software either, but communication software seems well enough to use. not perfect, but i do use it, unlike collab software...

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Idea for a product?

tonberrygrrl
2005-12-08 07:18 pm UTC (link)

I'm sorry if this is a little "missing the point". You post a lot of things that i don't respond to because i just don't understand what you're saying, but...

Even though you don't play them, you seem fascinated with MMOs because of the collaborative aspect of them. There are all kinds of people out there with different interests, skills, locations, etc., and they all get together and work hard together — just because. And it's true, i've see it happen. From what i understand, you wish to see this same thing in the workplace, right?

Now i'm hearing things about "collaboration software" and "communication software", and that they just don't have what the MMO has. So ... if the MMO has the properties that you're looking for, why not use it? What if your collaboration software was an MMO ... just with a twist? The "player's" goal is not endless hours of mindless hack-and-slash to build the Most Uber Character Evar!!1!one!1, but to use their enginuity to create/build A) something that has in-game embodiment (and hence in-game rewards to keep their interest), and at the same time B) something that has or comes from real-world application.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Idea for a product? aisa0 2005-12-08 07:33 pm UTC (link)
	for not understanding, you sure seem to understand well enought. :) i think what you are describing is in some ways what i'm getting at. leverage the interface provided by games (which have certain addictive properties as well as being great platforms for collaboration) to solve real-world problems. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Idea for a product?

tonberrygrrl
2005-12-09 06:12 am UTC (link)

*smiles*

What i have trouble understanding is anything that sounds like corporate lingo. I don't know what it is, but the moment corporate lingo is added into everyday conversation it's like my brain just completely turns off. It really intimidates me — i'm sorry if that sounds silly.

The same thing happens to me when Greek letters are thrown into equations. I'll be like "okay, okay, okay, okay, oh my god Greek letters i don't get it!" It's part of the reason why i had to retake all of my calculus and physics classes in college.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Idea for a product? aisa0 2005-12-09 02:51 pm UTC (link)
	you aren't the only one who has issues with corporate lingo (and i appologize to the degree i use it!). it has been rightly observed that such talk is not actual conversation. it rings hollow, one way, and one sided. it is a substitute for conversation. but well, live here long enough and it gets hard for it not to affect your brain... (Reply to this) (Parent)

	Re: Idea for a product? aisa0 2005-12-09 05:03 pm UTC (link)
	but you must also learn the language of your enemy to defeat them! heh. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Idea for a product? tonberrygrrl 2005-12-09 06:14 pm UTC (link)
	You are not my enemy, asia0. -Lin (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Idea for a product? aisa0 2005-12-09 06:30 pm UTC (link)
	squee k, that totally made me smile! (Reply to this) (Parent)

	Re: Idea for a product? aisa0 2005-12-08 05:59 pm UTC (link)
	what do you think, instead of a platform for collaboration, to have a platform for concensus building? (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Idea for a product? kbyrd 2005-12-08 06:12 pm UTC (link)
	I don't know what I think. How are the two things different? (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Idea for a product?

aisa0
2005-12-08 06:47 pm UTC (link)

i think

aleviathan does a good job of answering this, but to attempt to restate, collaboration would be working together on a project, where concensus would be working to agree on how we are going to solve problems.

said another way, to collaborate, we need to collaborate on *something* and that would require we all have the facility to do it (same environment, shared resources, etc) whereas concensus the final product is an action, result, or thought. something that is shared in our minds instead of being an actual thing.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Idea for a product?

aleviathan
2005-12-08 06:43 pm UTC (link)

Sounds cool. I'd say they are different but the consensus is the first step in
collaboratively solving a problem. I.e., the aspects of the problem need to be
clearly defined, both technically as well as ... culturally. I'm thinking that
there are values that push and pull on the shape of a problem - something can be
solved technically but won't work because of a value mismatch.

got large handful of notes on the conversing with 100k of folk, but I'll hold off.
But I think a central thread is going into the problem itself is having participants
agreeing to agree, so it's an excellent start.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Idea for a product? aisa0 2005-12-09 02:42 pm UTC (link)
	after reading your post i have a better idea of what you are talking about here. though i think i'll just comment on that post instead of doing it here. (Reply to this) (Parent)

sacra_imbri
2005-12-08 07:20 pm UTC (link)

Now, watch me be completely non-transcendant :)

I gather from reading the mini-threads and original supporting docs that you've some interest in creating/implementing an interface to coordinate large-scale collaborative projects/discusions.

There's the big goal/challenge/problem.

Back in my youth I participated in competetions where we wpicked apart a big challenge (like the conversation with 100,000 people) for smaller challenges, focused on those smaller problems and developed creative and practical solutions for them. It's very much a matter of crawling down the Maslow ladder in order to make sure the whole darn thing stays standing.

I'm not sure whether or not to recommend it as a structure for organizing/building an interface like tha one you seem to be describing, as it seems the standard approach to a problem, rather than a unique perspective.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

aisa0
2005-12-08 07:31 pm UTC (link)

i am usually guilty of posting links by going "google->search->find best looking list->post" without actually reading the thing i link to. so i did it in this case with maslow, so it may not be in the least bit topical :p

my intention (whether in that document or not) is to simultaneously solve a while hierarchy of needs, by providing "conversational" feedback first, then the kind of near-term feedback similiar to "drops" followed by longer term feedback of solving goals.

so i was thinking of an interface that provides for each of these levels of needs all at once, much like a mmorpg.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Random data point on remote collaboration

buttchigger
2005-12-08 07:41 pm UTC (link)

As far as geographical barriers to groups working on a project, take heart:

"It took only 18 months for more than 400 students – spread across 23 universities and 12 countries – to design and build the SSETI Express spacecraft. Set to launch from Russia’s Plesetsk Cosmodrome on Sept. 30, the project is part an education effort by the European Space Agency (ESA) to boost student interest in space technology and offer some hands-on experience."

via: http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/050921_techwed_sseti.html

Then again,

"A failure in the electrical power system onboard Sseti Express is preventing its batteries from charging."

via: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4394194.stm

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	Re: Random data point on remote collaboration aisa0 2005-12-08 07:49 pm UTC (link)
	tehe, i friended you before anyone else could! it seems that systems integration is particularly challenging in distributed environments. maybe because it is a "choke point" or just requires one or small number of people to actually do. what do you think? building things up unit-wise, on the other hand; can be demonstrably be fast. as in your first link. (Reply to this) (Parent)

savya
2005-12-08 08:10 pm UTC (link)

Ok,

discreet_chaos and I have been in discussion, and here are a couple of things that he mentioned that I think are probably necessary to implement soon.

First: a community for the discussion, so that this is no longer "hidden" in private journals. There are a few people who aren't reading because it's on a personal journal rather than a community focused to the subject.

Second: A poll to create a visual of peoples skills/interests, etc, so that instead of trying to interpret words and make them align, we can look at a long line across the page.

Third: As you mentioned, unit projects may be something that would work better than trying to come up with "one thing" that everyone would work on. Or an overlying idea with smaller subsets for the smaller, like-minded groups to work on.

Hopefully, he will jump in and add some of the thoughts we were discussing earlier as well, since there's no way I can repeat them well enough to do them justice.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	aisa0 2005-12-08 08:51 pm UTC (link)
	i know of at least three servers we could throw something up on. krbyrd has one, i have one, and clanspum.net could possible serve. or did you in fact, mean an lj community? (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	houdini_cs 2005-12-09 04:06 pm UTC (link)
	/me wakes up. Uh... yeah. I can provide. I can even get you crazy kids a domain name of your own, or a subdomain, or something. Somehow, I have a feeling I'm going to get some requests for services now. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	t3knomanser 2005-12-11 07:55 pm UTC (link)
	Hey, we want a wiki? I've got space and bandwidth. (Reply to this) (Parent)

kbyrd
2005-12-08 09:06 pm UTC (link)

I'll step up. I have limited bandwdith (well, I pay for overages but it's actually a really fast link), so I don't want to host images for a huge audience but a small/medium-size colloboration should fit in my bandwidth easily. I control the server entirely so I can install, configure whatever we want (that runs on Linux).

I vote no on using LJ, my only use of LJ is to repsond to aisa0 (not counting those 2 or 3 posts I created early on).

What do we want?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	aisa0 2005-12-08 09:48 pm UTC (link)
	i think some of our issues are going to spill into non-blogging territory. wikis, particularly. i do think we'll get the most participation by keeping the "news" or discussion on lj. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	aisa0 2005-12-09 02:43 pm UTC (link)
	one other thing you can do is to friend both me and antipreneurship, and read lj from your friends page. that way my posts and the posts on that community would just interweave with each other. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	aisa0 2005-12-09 02:48 pm UTC (link)
	as well as a wiki, we might need a bulletin board system too... (Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Random data point on remote collaboration

aleviathan
2005-12-08 09:16 pm UTC (link)

Given the dependency/integration caveat (and via redundant systems you can address this failure point), i'd hold that anything you can draw up a blueprint for can be collaboratively built successfully. Correct me, but I understood that the aim was at larger, complex problems that can not, at least easily, be schematically described.
Problems like the afore mentioned "how do we improve the health care system", or "do we need a waste disposal site, and if so, where, how will it be constructed, maintained, operated, monitored, and closed down?", or like the 100k folk confabulation - how?

off-base?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Random data point on remote collaboration

aisa0
2005-12-09 02:44 pm UTC (link)

i think most interesting problems don't fit well on a blueprint, so in that manner, the aim was in fact to address more complex problems.

i think that a small group is just going to be better at addressing these kinds of problems, so that we will naturaly find our niche in them. we would likely be outbid/outcompeted to try to do something the industrial world is great at.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	aisa0 2005-12-08 09:22 pm UTC (link)
	your wish is my command: antipreneurship. i'll make an announcement (on my journal, at least) tomorrow. (Reply to this)

sapphire_cat
2005-12-09 04:10 am UTC (link)

...I could be totally off but...

Okay, we have gamers, right? I'm sure that many of us have played EverCrack. One of the reasons that game is "so great" is because of the community aspect of that. That's why we like LJ, right? Well... would making a BB (instead of a journal) work for this? That way, we can set it up to play to a lot of interests and have sub groups and stuff on it? **frowns at her phrasing** I'm not sure if this makes sense, but... well, you guys have all seen BBs. We could have a "Main" that's called antipreneurship, and under that, have a section called "technology" or "human rights" and under those, have sections called "computers" or "Medicaid." That way, we're more organized. People can post to the things that interest them. We can have that conversation with 100,000 people.

Or, I could be being a complete moron.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

aisa0
2005-12-09 02:48 pm UTC (link)

it makes sense to me. a bb would be a much better forum for having multiple disjoint conversations. blogs are kinda limited to the top two or three stories going on at any one moment.

i think though, as you scale up, even a bulletin board system would have trouble coordinating people, mostly because of the amount of reading and comprehension that would be required to determine what is going on.

i think this happens (in part) because of the imprecision of language, so i tend to think of solutions by cooking the discussion into a set of relationships, beliefs, or positions that are backed by a larger discussion.

sort of "at a glance" style information. but i do wonder at what point we might need a bb...

(Reply to this) (Parent)

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