none of the above ([info]aisa0) wrote,
@ 2005-07-26 07:34:00
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need some advice
last week i had lunch with one of my coworkers who is currently enrolled in the master's program at unm. he got me talking quite a bit about the software i'm working on and some of the research that i would like to be doing.

he eventually asked why i didn't get into grad school and pursue some of my research ideas. we talked about this a little bit before going back to work, but the idea has stayed with me since last week.

so i'm hoping that the vast unwashed mass of college hippies that is my blog readership can help me out with a few questions and impart some advice:


i'm very interested in making more room in my life to purse some research ideas. i'm not convinced college can provide this. i would have access to other stundents and professors, but if i can afford to quit my job and go to college, i can afford to quit my job and not go to college too.

so from my perspective, by going to college, i could possibly find a job and housing; plus have more direct access to other people to work with. taking out a student loan is absolutely, entirely out of the question, so i'd also have to find scholarships.

but i could also skip enrolling in college, start e-mailing professors and hanging out on campus/in-class without enrolling, and find some other way to deal with housing and making money.

which is to say i could do the same kind of networking i would get by going to college much more cheaply than the cost of actually enrolling in said college.

it is worth mentioning that i don't have an undergrad degree. i've been told this might make it hard for me to get into a master's program. i'm not a big believer in rules, but it might be worth knowing how much it will take to break that one. similarly, the goal is *not* to actually get a master's degree. i could care less about actually finishing a degree program. i'm looking for an effective way to do research. the most likely outcome is to productize the result.



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[info]cybercerberus
2005-07-26 02:35 pm UTC (link)
If you're not interested in a degree, then I wonder if the university wouldn't let you just sign up to audit some courses. Auditing a course is a good way to meet the students and professor, without having to do any homework. The school gets their money, and you get your exposure. Then you can parlay that into something more interesting later.

? maybe?

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[info]aisa0
2005-07-26 03:12 pm UTC (link)
i was never really clear on what auditing was. i was thinking to take one class purely to get a student id and have "access" but to essentially blow that class off and do the interesting things.

very good idea. i was also thinking i could teach an undergrad class instead of taking it. sounds similiar, though a little harder to arrange.

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To college or not to college...
[info]kbyrd
2005-07-26 02:55 pm UTC (link)
Disclaimer: I have no undergrad degree either. But, I have the most undergrad experience of any non-degreed person I've met. I'm certainly biased.

What is it that you want? If you just want to do research in interesting areas, it's going to be all about meeting the people, not attending the school. My impression is that it's totally possible.

Example:
A friend of mine got a job on a research team with a professor at school. It was a regular job with a salary (meager) and everything. He'd worked "in the real world" a bit between school and this, and I think the professor found him invaluable. He started off sort of a grunt (not a real researcher 'cause he wasn't in the Master's program), but quickly was doing the research. There was just a fit between the professor and my friend. He's not still doing it, the grant ran out after several years, but he really enjoyed it.

I don't think the Masters degree itself will serve you well career-wise. Also, I know you pretty well, and I don't think you'll get much out of it intellectually. What you really want (I think), is to talk to interesting people about interesting things. Work with them for a while and come up with some novel solutions to problems that bug you. None of this says "Masters" program to me. Parts of a Masters or PhD program are about this, but not all. I think you should take the "hang around" route. Definitely audit classes and attend talks at Santa Fe Institute, they bring in some world class people on a variety of topics. Basically, focus on the social networking (put your self in the right place ;-), and wait for the right time.

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Re: To college or not to college...
[info]aisa0
2005-07-26 03:10 pm UTC (link)
i hadn't thought about getting a non-student job with a professor. i would be down for doing grunt work with that kind of arrangement, whereas i would not be down for it if i were a student. excellent idea.

i'm agreeing that i don't think a masters degree will serve my needs. actually it sounds like commuting isn't serving my needs, but i'll punt and say i should at least start by going the networking route...

thanks!

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[info]spoot14
2005-07-26 03:35 pm UTC (link)
I don't know much about the computing world, but usually graduate work=paid school, especially if you are doing something grant worthy. I like it because I need the intense school work and such for what I would like to do. There is only so much you can learn if you are not learning it straight from the experts in my case. The experience is invaluable. Also, colleges don't usually let you bum. They don't like it if you show up to class unpaid, especially UNM. Teacher's offerings and pay are based on the number of registered students, so they enforce this pretty regularly. I would try to find a way around it if I were you unless you wanted to dive into it entirely. Usually the schools that are worthwhile will throw everything they've got at you to get you to be worthy of the degree. If they don't, then you might as well use the degree as toilet paper. Ask around though, you never know what you'll find out.

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[info]aisa0
2005-07-26 03:44 pm UTC (link)
someone could probably do a better job at characterizing it than i can, but there is a fairly wide disjoint between the academic side of computer science and the industry side. and for those of you who just laughed at that comment, i mean the difference is wider than "normal" (i.e. other industries). it seems to me to be growing wider still.

i haven't quite figured how relevant your average computer science professors' work is to the wider world, and vice versa. i've only seen the discussion come up a few times and never really explored it, so maybe someone could either corroborate or refute what i'm trying to get at in this comment.

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[info]spoot14
2005-07-26 05:35 pm UTC (link)
And I did not shower today, so I fit your blogging profile ;) Good luck with your investigations!

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[info]aisa0
2005-07-26 06:05 pm UTC (link)
what was that hippie smell you don't like? you need some of that.

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[info]spoot14
2005-07-26 07:26 pm UTC (link)
It's patchouli (sp?) and Ryan is the one who does not like it, which is even funnier!

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[info]spoot14
2005-07-26 08:10 pm UTC (link)
Although this is probably not useful knowledge, I felt I'd comment anyways. I knew a someone who got his PhD from UNM and he was focusing on artificial intelligence. He really enjoyed it, but he moved to CA and I lost touch because he and his life partner split, and I was friends with the other first. Nasty situation or I might try to contact him. Let me do some digging amongst that crowd (might take a while though).

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[info]garthperry
2005-07-26 08:40 pm UTC (link)
I am not particularly smelly (at least I don't think so) and I would in no way EVER self-identify as a hippie, but maybe my current work in graduate school might provide some perspective. I certainly am not in the computer science field, but I do believe much of graduate work is similar among programs...

That being said, I think your idea of e-mailing professors is an excellent start. If there is a way for you to discuss some of your research ideas without giving up too much information a kind instructor might be able to give some valuable advice about what is going on in that area at that university and where your skills and interests might find a match. They might be able to give you some other ideas about how research is conducted in their department and how you might contribute without formally entering the program. After my undergraduate experience it became quite clear to me that unless you plan on working in a field that requires certain certifications to become employable there really is no specific need for the degree outside of the experiences you gain while jumping through the necessary hoops. My field requires a degree and a certain number of classes to obtain advanced certification, but I know computer science does not follow this model. So, I would try and find people working in areas you are interested in and get their perspective. Everyone else will be speculating.

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Academic Ramblings
[info]grumpygranpa
2005-07-27 04:48 am UTC (link)
Some general observations from an old guy who actually does have a Masters.

Spoot is right about grad students having value. The school likes lots of students. Also, they generally like older students with real world experience. Keeps the teaching staff and younger students on their toes. When I applied for my masters program, I was over 30 and my GRE scores were set to expire in a week. The school, in NY, held a special committee session to get me in before the scores died. They were hungry.

I also found that I could pretty much design my own program. I had to take some core courses since I was pursuing an MS in education and had no undergraduate coursework. But they were actually pretty interesting, mostly requiring reading.

As far as my course project was concerned, I designed it and did it mostly out of school. I new far more about the subject than my advisor so he just took my word for the validity of the work. Suspect you would be in a similar situation!! (I also BS'd my way out of a statistics class, but that's another story.)

What I would recommend is to find a program of study that you can start part time. Most older grad students don't just quit the job and go to school. The college or university should have lots of choices like that. Tell them you need the degree to further your career but can't afford to quit work. Get started, get an ID and library card and then get creative.

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