none of the above ([info]aisa0) wrote,
@ 2007-10-04 14:53:00
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my problem with hierarchy
one of the sites i regularly read is "the archdruid report", by john michael greer. a major subject of john's blog are the narratives we tell ourselves. his thesis is that the stories we have in our head about ourselves constrains our thinking and actions. that if we want to change ourselves and our culture we need to change our story.


ran prieur was recently talking about this as well:


September 26. A reader asks:

I was reading your about me page and noticed that you say that you don't plan on living on your land unless you are forced to. I've been reading your site for a while and I always thought your plan was to move there once it became more habitable. Is this a new plan?

No. But this seems to be a universal misconception. I thought it would be enough that I never said I planned to live there full time, and that I occasionally said the opposite, that I plan to divide my time between the land and the city for my whole life, unless an emergency forces me to hole up there.

Clearly I underestimated the power of Myth, specifically the American myth of the rugged solo homesteader, the "mountain man." In this culture, if you say you're buying land, everyone fills in the background with that pre-made Grizzly Adams tapestry. Sometimes even I forget that I'm not planning to live that way. The truth is, few or none of my ancestors were independent homesteaders. The vast majority lived close to the land, but they did so as members of tribes or extended families. When I visit people who have gone "back to the land" in the isolated American fashion, almost without exception they are bored or depressed, and most of my city friends are happy.

I'm an introvert: I recharge my energy when I'm alone and drain it when I'm around other people. But I still enjoy being around other people, as long as they're not dumping negativity on me or talking about their latest medical procedure. I love walking down a city street and seeing hundreds of new faces. I veer off into madness if I have no contact with other people at all. Only the most extreme introverts are exceptions to the rule: it's even more important for us to be around other people, than it is for us to be in nature.

So my land is a place to keep a connection to nature, to learn valuable low-tech skills, and to grow fruit trees, something I really love that I can't afford space to do in the city. Also it's a source of good drinking water, which may be priceless in a few years. And I'm building a hut that will be cozy in the winter so that if I need to bug out there, or I just want to visit for a few days, I won't be out of luck five months a year.

On the same subject, here's a great Bill McKibben essay that I've linked to before: Old MacDonald Had A Farmers’ Market - total self-sufficiency is a noble, misguided ideal.


i've recently found myself in the grips of one of my own narratives, and it's causing a problem.

i have an emotional, visceral, negative response to hierarchy. hierarchy is such a broad concept that i'd like to try to get narrow it down a bit, heavily colored by my current situation. i respond poorly to taking orders, particularly when they are handed down with no explanation or seem otherwise arbitrary.

i don't think that hierarchical organizations work, save for the extreme amount of non-hierarchical activity that occurs within them. david pollard has pointed this out countless times, comparing traditional organizations to social networks, "natural" enterprises, and the wisdom of crowds to traditional western organization (or at least our conception of them). he's spend a lot of time research how people actually work in organizations and discovered that org charts are a pathetic way to actually convey how a company functions. the best article on the subject is The Psychology of Information, or Why We Don't Share Stuff.

a huge part of my job at prediction company was working around the hierarchy. we would get instructions from our bosses and figure out how to do what they wanted by working around all of the imposed limits of the organization. my problem solving network looking nothing like the org chart, and i actively cultivated and manipulated relationships (both my own and other people's) to both avoid problems and get things done.

one of the policies that i have cultivated at inicom is permission to fail. before my getting here, my future partners in crime would see a person heading in a direction that they knew, positively, to be unproductive. they would immediately work to correct the problem. that specific problem would be avoided, but the underlying issue remained unsolved.

i've worked since getting here on letting mistakes happen. often i see them from a mile away, but instead of dealing with it directly i manipulate conditions (like test cases) to make the mistake obvious, eventually. this strategy has resulted in our new graduate being fully productive in 3 months (i usually give 3-6) and another person with a reputation for needing everything spelled out in exact detail being my star programmer/designer. (he does things with ajax and php that make me weep they're so beautiful, after i get done jumping up and down and showing them to everyone.)

more generally, my full time job is pushing responsibility away from me and toward the edges. my basic approach is to do everything in my power to make my (current) job obsolete and to give as much decision making authority as possible to the people "below" me on the org chart. it is basic, applied wirearchy.

this is not a small part of my life. it's fairly fundamental to a lot of how i look at and interact with the world.

i'm part of an organization (not inicom, another organization) that doesn't approach the world this way. i really enjoy being a part of this organization. most of the time things work fine, but every now and again the specter of hierarchical acting creeps in. when this happens i tend to get really angry, and more than a little snotty.

recently a decision was handed down from on high. i thought the decision was a bad idea, but i thought the way the decision was made to be a fantastically stupid idea. our fearless leaders saw an issue, discussed amongst themselves a solution, and handed it down. it affected all of us, but we weren't part of the decision making process. the decision itself clearly reflected the bias and selfsame thinking of said fearless leaders. there were other, better, solutions available; possessed variously by other people affected by the decision. opening the discussion would have lent a lot more problem solving ability. (in the manner of the wisdom of crowds.) not to mention a broader understanding of all the surrounding issues.

i think also it would have been more honest. people (myself definitely included) are afraid to show weakness, and opening decision making often brings weakness up. you can't just say "i solved this problem." you have to say "i have this problem, can we fix it." often the problem solved isn't the same as the problem being experienced. it's a convenient, safe, proxy for it.

all of this is a long way to get to my point, which is that i handle hierarchical acting poorly. when i see the situation, i really want to sit the people in question down and impart my understanding of the decision making process. i really want the people involved to fundamentally think differently, to not be locked into hierarchical decision making. since that is a long discussion with no clear resolution, i usually respond instead with nasty quips, angry retorts, and a significant lack of patience.

more specifically, when i feel labeled as a peon in a hierarchy (i.e., my decision making authority is revoked or non-existent), i have a really low tolerance for solving that organization's problems. i adopt a basic attitude of shutting up, doing exactly, literally, what i'm asked, and further being as subversive as possible in my non-support. i don't lend energy one-way.

my participation in this organization is threatened because of this.

i want to continue to be part of this organization, but i really can't handle the way decisions are being made. i've cooked up several options:
    • change my narrative: i could be telling myself the wrong story. the story i'm telling myself now makes me angry, but maybe that's not what is going on. what kind of story would i tell myself instead?
      reframe my narrative: maybe i am telling myself the right story, it's just my emotional reaction to it that needs adjustment. this is a learning experience and there is some better version of me on the other side if i just get over myself. since this is such a strong part of my identity, how do i approach dealing with this baggage?
      change the organization: i'm not trying to change you, i'm trying to make you better. i have no idea what my chance of success would be. the first time i tried it i was ignored enough to be subversion, the second time i had decision making authority and just did it. neither apply here.
      quit: life is too short to play by someone else's rules. fuck you, you, and you. twice. deal with the fact that people will tell me i need to grow up. and also, of course, happily refuse to "grow up." i'll say, as an aside, this strategy has a 100% success rate so far. (which is to say, i'm still alive and still a jerk.)
  • i'd like a head-check on the way i've told this story. i have a hard time believing i'm a beautiful and unique snowflake (i.e. i can't be the only one who thinks this way), but i encounter a lot of people that seem trapped in bureaucratic thinking. how big is this battle?


    please tell me your first reaction to this post, particularly if it is negative. i'd like some perspective outside my own head.

    meme-style, i'll tag [info]royal_spice, [info]aviatrix, and [info]grumpygranpa. because i'd like to hear what you have to say. here or by e-mail, im. not that this should discourage anyone else.

    [i'm sorry i'm not naming names in this story. i know it would make it easier to understand. you can im me for details, as always.]



    (16 comments) - (Post a new comment)


    [info]echoweaver
    2007-10-05 12:06 am UTC (link)
    I really like the way you're framing your personal conflict. I both agree and disagree with your perception of hierarchy.

    On the pros:
    Hierarchy does not have to unilateral and without feedback from the bottom-to-top.

    I don't believe than any large endeavor is possible without hierarchy, where hierarchy is defined as ultimate decision-making authority in the hands of a few people.

    What you were doing when you had decision-making authority is still, IMHO, hierarchy. Considering yourself responsible for guiding the behavior of others to greater ends than they would reach by themselves is leadership. When some people are leaders and others are not, you end up with a form of hierarchy. And people are differently suited to leadership. In the simple case, this is just a two-level hierarchy: the leaders and the led. But as I said in my first point, I don't think a two-level hierarchy will reach large important goals. To do that, the leaders have to work together, and there must be an ultimate decision-making authority that governs them. And so on for enormous endeavors.

    I guess this is a statement that consensus does not work unless the group is small, has a large amount of mutual respect, and has above-average conflict-resolution skills. And anything other than consensus must involve some sort of restricted decision-making authority, and then you're right at some kind of hierarchy. But I may be misunderstanding what you see as hierarchy.

    On the cons:
    In a perfect world, a company org chart ought to match the leadership capabilities of the people on it. This is almost never true. Part of the problem is that people with enough authority to be full-time managers can't judge management skills in each other. The respect of your peers is often more directly related to how well you present yourself than your actual leadership skills or any results you can produce with your team.

    In many company cultures, part of presenting yourself as a leader seems to be pretending your know everything without asking, showing no fear, and handing down decisions from above. It must be for the purpose of impressing your peers, since it makes you no friends amongst your underlings.

    Companies seem to have love affairs with their org charts. High-level managers come into a new position and seem to believe that they only way they can positively affect their department is to reorganize. The result in 90% of the cases is to crush productivity and raise frustration. This is a completely blind view to what an org chart really is -- a loose guideline under which the organization functions. If people are motivated to get their work done, they'll do it despite the org chart.

    In conclusion:
    Um, I think some form of hierarchy is a necessary evil. I also think that any company hierarchy is flawed almost by definition. Finding workarounds is exactly the right and responsible thing to do. Trying to get an idea of how get your feedback can be heard is even more important. Some hierarchies are more flawed than others.

    As to whether you should try to work within the system or fuck off, I couldn't judge. It depends on just how messed up this particular hierarchy is. I'm currently fucking off because I can't handle mine, so YMMV.

    Ideally, you could try to use those powers of manipulation you've used to make your peers/reports more productive to make your lead more productive as a leader. But that only works if you can find a knob to turn.

    Good luck.

    (Reply to this) (Thread)


    [info]aisa0
    2007-10-05 03:33 pm UTC (link)
    But I may be misunderstanding what you see as hierarchy.

    i'd be happy to redefine hierarchy as "everything bad about organizations" but, well, i'm not going to do that! regardless of what i see as hierarchy, i think you've done a fair job of pointing out what it is.

    i've met people who take org charts at face value. that define much of their view of the world by this org chart, or otherwise hierarchically. i've tried and variously succeeded in dehierarchicalizing (new word!) my thinking, and i've found that a lot of the world was organized in my head that way when i didn't want it to be.

    thank you so much for this post, i'm really glad you took the time to write up something so thoughtful. it has really helped get some clarity in my thinking. particularly in escaping my two-dimensional view of hierarchy.

    (Reply to this) (Parent)


    [info]lamasong
    2007-10-05 01:27 am UTC (link)
    I have 2 major points that show a different view.

    Hierarchy should be followed when complaining, but not to do your job. My management is there to get problems out of my way and to help me grow my career. My management has no expectations that I follow the hierarchy to get my job done - no one that I work with does. My ability to make contacts around the company at whatever level is appropriate to get my task done has always been praised.

    If you go to management and tell them their decision is wrong and you don't provide data (in a way they can understand), then you won't be listened to. I think that is pretty true across the board (at least until you have proven yourself as a domain expert).

    I think you may find better luck approaching it differently or you may just have bad management. Either way, I hope you find a good resolution!

    (Reply to this) (Thread)


    [info]aisa0
    2007-10-05 08:49 pm UTC (link)
    thank you!

    do you have much experience working for organizations outside of software? i find your statements have been generally true for me as well, working in software. the experiences of my friends have not always been true, working outside the field.

    but that is a fairly wide brush to paint with, and perhaps not the best for talking about organizational functionality.

    (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


    [info]lamasong
    2007-10-07 11:20 pm UTC (link)
    Outside of the software industry, my past jobs include: managing a Kinko's, electrical engineering for LANL, and working for a district court.

    I tend to agree that working out of the hierarchy is much more common in software development.

    For many jobs, there is training. Experience makes you better, but there is a well defined knowledge base to learn and work from to be completely able to do a job (CS we just get the foundation). In environments like this, a persons management can usually provide the same information that going out of the hierarchy would provide. In situations like that, there is no reason to venture outwards. Therefore it can be seen as suspicious or negative to management.

    Back to the software industry. We work with complex and relatively young technology. The right way to do X is constantly changing and therefore to stay appropriate one must work to stay up to date. The scope of information ensures that no one knows every up to date aspect.

    I'm finding it hard to describe my thoughts on this, but hopefully it makes a bit of sense.

    (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


    [info]aisa0
    2007-10-08 02:23 pm UTC (link)
    that nails it, i think. the notion that adaptation happens both in creating a product and how that product gets created. you would naturally expect from this that any relatively new field, or perhaps any sufficiently complex one, would exhibit the same traits.

    in education, you might even find the manner in which the subject is taught to vary from the manner in which more established subjects are taught, within the same school.

    thank you!

    (Reply to this) (Parent)


    [info]royal_spice
    2007-10-05 03:18 am UTC (link)
    I disclaim any knowledge of the specific situation you describe. That said, I can now comment, that this sort of behavior, of abusing hierarchy (IMO) particularly annoys me when it comes from people who purportedly espouse different values than the rest of the terrible patriarchal society (from whence they've garnered their ingrained ideas of how to act when entrusted with power). I don't know if that's in any way applicable to your situation, but it came to mind as sort of "and the worst thing about it is..." :)

    I don't disagree with you. I often feel in the same boat. Checking myself first and giving time to rule out an over-reaction, I typically either change my narrative, or leave the situation; I can't tolerate hypocrisy, arbitrariness, and ultimately, being devalued by a role. I don't think changing the organization is, in most hierarchical situations of any size, a realistic option, whether you're in a position of poobah or peon, actually, unless you completely eradicate hierarchy altogether.

    I can't wait to talk to you about this in person. ;)

    (Reply to this) (Thread)


    [info]yarrowkat
    2007-10-05 03:31 pm UTC (link)
    changing the organization is actually an option here, but it won't happen easily, and may not be possible at all. to perpetuate aisa0's vagueness about detail, i think the root of this is a communication pattern among two people that is not resulting in their understanding each other, which a change of narrative (possibly for both parties) will correct, or which can be corrected by the two of them sitting down together with open minds and and seeking a mutual solution.

    but then, i'm a fan of talking through things, and my opinion has already been stated elsewhere. *grin*

    meanwhile, i'm doing some outside reading on the topic, and have some materials i'd like to present to our fearless leaders, which, if well received, might help. i'll wait until i've read more, though. :)

    (Reply to this) (Parent)

    Randomness
    [info]ashti25
    2007-10-05 04:22 am UTC (link)
    my first reaction to this is something like,

    "if hierarchies are so stupid/dysfunctional/inappropriate, why do humans constantly re-invent them?"

    or, IOW, what are people trying to accomplish with hierarchies? and, for the sake of the conversation, i'd like to outlaw answers like "consolidate power." ;)

    (Reply to this) (Thread)

    Re: Randomness
    [info]aisa0
    2007-10-05 08:52 pm UTC (link)
    my stock answer is that we have trouble working in groups larger that ~150 people, so hierarchies are one form of solving that problem.

    more radically (for better and worse), i think that hierarchies are a meme virus that can and will run it's course, to be replaced by other forms of organization. not entirely (i don't believe, fundamentally, that any practice goes away), but enough to were they aren't the dominant thinking pattern of my culture.

    (Reply to this) (Parent)


    [info]sacra_imbri
    2007-10-05 09:07 am UTC (link)
    So, let me get this straight:

    1)Decision was made by nebulous group of leaders
    2)Decision was stated to group as a whole, and implementation expected
    3)Reasoning behind said decision was not explained to group who are to implement decision.
    4)[info]aisa0 is responding to said decision with "significant lack of patience" and possible subversiveness.
    5)[info]aisa0 may have to terminate membership in organization due to feelings/response over this issue.

    Without more detailed information on the situation it is impossible to provide rationale for any of the options you have provided. I suggest secret option #Q: Gather more data.

    I'm a big fan of writing down my rationale where I can see it when I have the opportunity. It helps me get a handle on what I actually want from a situation. Only by knowing what I desire the outcome to be can I know what action to take.

    Questions I would ask myself in this instance:
    1) Before nebulous group of leaders rose to power, how did I feel about them and their particular biases?
    2) Why do I disagree with the directive handed down, and would clarification from nebulous group of leaders change my opinion of the directive?
    3) How do I benefit from participation in this organization?
    4) How would not being a member of this organization affect my life/identity?
    5) How would willing compliance with the directive alter my life/identity?
    6) Is this directive a one-time occurrence, or part of a pattern of decisions made without consulting the group?
    7) How much time/energy would be required to shift the group's structure to one more to my liking?
    8) Would altering the group's structure change its identity?

    I'd then set down my answers and walk away/sleep on it. Reading over the response with some detachment would give me a clear understanding of my own motives, and thus the game-plan for my actions.

    We are not the same person, so this approach may not help you at all, but I thought I'd share anyway.

    *hugs*





    (Reply to this)


    [info]traumentwerfer
    2007-10-06 05:00 pm UTC (link)
    You pose some very interesting questions. I have a fairly strong disdain for hierarchy as well, yet I have been fortunate to work within organizations thus far in my life, where there is good communication in all directions, and whatever hierarchy existed didn't affect me much.

    In my recently formed Intentional Community, we have 11 members, and we do things by consensus. We have spent months coming up with ways to balance the time to decide complex things with the avoidance of hierarchy.

    I don't think a comment here is an appropriate place to go into the gorey details, but I do believe what we have works quite well, and I have never felt that anyone was so far left out of the decision-making process. The checks and balances have been effective.

    I know of another intentional community in Davis, CA, called N Street. They have been around for more than 20 years, with possibly up to 100 people. They have not strayed from consensus for any decisions. They consider themselves a successful organization as they continue to grow and take over 2 city blocks.

    I will email you if you are interested in some of the stuff we have worked out.

    (Reply to this) (Thread)


    [info]traumentwerfer
    2007-10-06 05:01 pm UTC (link)
    Oh and I should mention: Our founders, [info]patrissimo and [info]choiceful might be willing to answer more questions, if you have any.

    (Reply to this) (Parent)


    [info]euneeblic
    2007-10-07 06:20 am UTC (link)
    I've been down this road before. Eventually, I had to realize that I'm not paid to think, and that I should just do as I'm told. As you know, I'll be taking door #4.

    (Reply to this)

    Hierarchy
    [info]grumpygranpa
    2007-10-09 06:54 am UTC (link)
    Hmmm, an interesting conundrum and one that happens to just about every thinking individual sometime, or many times, in their lives.

    Regarding hierarchy, it’s part of the human condition. Hierarchies didn't start with the Industrial Revolution. Even primitive societies operate with a hierarchy. What seems to bother you most is the decision making process. That is a separate issue. Even in a large hierarchy, decision making should be devolved to the lowest practical level. At that point, the decision could be made by consensus and then communicated back up the hierarchy. Of course some decisions do affect the entire organization and may come down from on high, but the actual decision may have been made by consensus. Think the board of directors of Intel deciding to get out of the network hardware business in the early 2000’s.

    As far as what you can do in this situation, that’s harder to determine. Much depends on how important the organization is to you. From your description, I doubt that you have much hope of changing the organization. Consequently, the question becomes, how much are you willing or able to change yourself? Also what is the cost to you of making those changes? This, of course, has to be weighed against the importance of remaining a part of the organization.

    Sorry this is so short and so late. I was busy all weekend and wanted to think about this subject a bit.

    (Reply to this) (Thread)

    Re: Hierarchy
    [info]aisa0
    2007-10-09 11:03 pm UTC (link)
    no worries about it being late, nothing has had a chance to be decided yet.

    as i've been able to stew on this more, i've refined my thinking to include problems with the decision making process and leadership style. this is much more helpful than more abstract things like hierarchy. more to the root of the issue. this is the kind of "change the narrative" stuff i was looking for.

    thank you!

    (Reply to this) (Parent)


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